Midnight Oil's independence doesn't stop at a commercial level. They strongly suggest support for an independent Australia, in particular protesting exploitation of Australian mineral resources by American mining companies. And they can be viewed as musically independent too, as Toby Creswell writes: 'There is no generic relationship between the Oils and any of the other combos now stretching the boundaries of popular music. Perhaps it's just a pathological side-effect of my life as a critic, but I think it's a significant point in assessing the musical development of Midnight Oil. It seems to me they've reached the same place from another direction.

'Midnight Oil, to my ears at least, have always been an idiosyncratic group whose style owed little to any particular genre but was basically a very individual blend of hard rock styles rather than a radical approach. However, since about the time of their third album they have been rethinking the structure of the band and the relationships between their instruments, and with their latest album have found a voice that is not only distinctive but provocative. Certainly, the 10-1 album, and the two singles, "US Forces" and "The Power and the Passion", are landmarks in the development of Australian rock.'

Midnight Oil's home turf is the Royal Antler Hotel at Narrabeen, on Sydney's north shore, and it was there that they found their original audience in the surfing sub-culture, which embraced the group with open arms. Even though the Oil's first two albums came out on the small RCA subsidiary Powderworks, and received little exposure on radio or television, word spread. Midnight Oil refused to dilute their attack; they lent support to causes such as CND, Greenpeace, Rock Against Racism and for Aboriginal land rights. Soon, the Australian music industry would meet Midnight Oil's terms, rather than vice versa. They linked up with CBS. In 1982, they journeyed to England; they played a few gigs, which were only moderately successful, but they did record 10-1 with producer Nick Launay, and it was this album that crowned Midnight Oil's ascent in Australia. Late in 1983, the Oils were able to fill Sydney's new Entertainment Centre-capacity, 12 000-over three consecutive nights! And if any of the group's old surfing fans felt betrayed at all then they were wrong, because Midnight Oil have retained all the integrity, commitment, passion and power that put them there in the first place.

- C.W.

DISCOGRAPHY: Midnight Oil (album, Powderworks, '78); Head Injuries (album, Powderworks, '79); Bird Noises (EP, Powderworks, '80); Place Without A Postcard (album, CBS, '81); 'Armistice Day' (single, CBS, '82); 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 (album, CBS, '82); 'US Forces' (single, CBS, '83); 'Power and the Passion' (single, CBS '83)

Although Midnight Oil's shaven-headed law-graduate vocalist Peter Garrett is undeniably the group's focal point, he shares the role of spokesman with drummer Rob Hirst. This interview with Hirst took place late in 1983, just after the Oil's Entertainment Centre gigs.

What are the things you most like about playing in Midnight Oil?

(long pause) I enjoy playing in a band that hasn't diluted-which so many bands do as they start to get a bit of history behind them-hasn't diluted it's energy or it's commitment and also I believe Midnight Oil still has many musical areas to explore which is a very exciting thing. I think 10, 9, 8... could be only the beginning of our experimenting in the studio. We have no limits except our own imagination, or lack of, preventing us from making another album which can go in any direction. We don't have any musical area we have to stick in and I think there's still a lot of music inside the five of us which should come out.

What sort of direction do you see Midnight Oil heading?

I can't tell you that; I don't know.

When you talk of pushing the band is it consciously trying to push the parameters of your music and in what ways?

Well I think that we've been liberated in one respect from the live sound. The Australian pub circuit spawns bands which have a sound honed over nights playing pubs and that can limit a band in its experimentation. You can spend too much time on the road and not enough time in studios. I think perhaps we fell victim to that to a certain extent-trying to get the live sound down on record and not enough time in studios exploring that.

It's come full circle from there now where we understand what a live show is and we understand what a record is and we also understand that the two require totally different approaches. Bearing that in mind I think that the experimentation by the band in the studio can continue and we can still be as powerful as the old stuff. Hopefully more powerful through different combinations again.

As a band you've stayed pretty far away from R&B-based music. Was that a conscious decision because it's been done so much in the past?

It's just that we weren't that sort of band.

When you started out were there things that you tried to emulate as most people do?

Well I suppose everyone listened to different sorts of music and said 'Oh I'd like to form a band that sounded like that', but of course the reality is that what you end up with is hopefully totally different from anything you ever...

Some people get pretty close. A lot of people just . . . copy.

Yeah, yeah well that avenue was unavailable to us because of the nature of the different influences so even if someone wanted to copy someone else that idea was nixed.

To me it sounds like there has been a very rapid development in Midnight Oil from the Postcard album to 10, 9, ...

It was only when we were able to co-produce an album, which was the 10, 9, 8... album, that these things we had pent up, that we thought we could do, were expunged onto the record. In other words I think the Glyn Johns [who produced Place Without A Postcard] experience embittered us towards relying on other people's judgement in the production field.

You see I don't agree with you that it's been a necessarily musical change or even development. I think that once we were able to get free rein in the studio and once we had a co- producer like Nick Launay who could push the band to it's limit in terms of who could go a bit further than the other person, and once we were put in a state-of-the-art studio I think those things came together to make it the album that it is. Whatever it is.

The thing that struck me I think beginning with 'Armistice Day' single was that there were more holes in the music.

Someone made an astute comment when we came back from overseas. He said it's like Midnight Oil went away and took apart their music and reassembled it in a different way and perhaps that's what happened. Everyone looked at each other and said here we have this band which by some fate has got together and you play like that and we've played this way naturally now for three years, but possibly there are other ways that these five people can play together. That's what happened, we stripped it right back down and we built it back up in a different way.

Was this a conscious thing?

Yeah, it was a conscious effort to explore different sounds that we could make rather than two guitars, bass, drums, lead singer-go for it.

Songs like 'Power and the Passion' don't sound to me like commercial records and yet you hear them on the airwaves and see them on TV.

Yep. I think we got ourselves in a position where some English bands find themselves. The radio programmers don't really want to play that band because the music doesn't fit into their formats, but the pressure from the people to play something from that band becomes so great that they have to relent. That is a very healthy thing because it's only by forcing those people to expand the area that they play in that music to the masses ever seems to get rejuvenated.

If it hadn't been for your following you never would have got this far. Why do you think you have such a devoted audience?

That's a very difficult question for me to answer. I think it's lots of things.

Firstly. Right from the start I think we presented an alternative. We presented an alternative to people who were sick of being force-fed American garbage music on the radio. We presented an alternative to bands singing 'Love, love me baby', in that there were lyrics that you could get into and explore, put your own interpretations to.

I think the bottom line with the Oils has always been the energy and I think there is a large number of Australian kids who like the way, and can relate to their own lives, that we don't appear to have made any compromises to the status quo or the establishment.

When you say 'appear' does that mean you have?

Yes because with a band that gets to our level now there are inherent paradoxes in our position.

Like what?

Well as you've already touched on: here we have a band where music has always been non commercial; i.e. it's never been written to be a commercial product, however it has been played on the radio just because people have wanted to hear Midnight Oil music.

That's not a compromise; that's a victory surely?

Well we don't see it in terms of victory or otherwise. I'm just saying from the kid's point of view ... many kids used to come up to us and say 'We don't ever want to hear you on the radio'. Now they see us reaching much larger areas and they feel betrayed by the band in some respect and that's what I mean by compromised. Whereas in actual fact we haven't compromised or changed at all but there is an apparent contradiction.

There is an apparent contradiction also in playing large arenas as we have on this last tour even though we played to 200 kids at Numberwah in Arnhem Land and then played to 12 000 in three nights at the Entertainment Centre in Sydney. There is a bizarre paradox there. Obviously there are a lot of people who want to see the band. If we keep playing small places the majority of those people don't see us so they get incredibly pissed off and if we do play the big places other people object because they long for the intimacy of the pubs which we played for years and years. So you can't win there either.

The contradiction I see is that you go through a multinational corporation like CBS.

However as I already explained and I explain to people when they bring this up. For us it was a choice of either doing a deal with CBS and I might add it's not a full signing to CBS, we have total control over the record. We make the album, we give it to CBS, they decide whether they like it or not.

Is it a tape/lease deal?

It's like a tape/lease but it's not exactly the same. In other words we have all the control we used to have even when we were with Powderworks. The only problem was that under the old system easy mechanical things like putting records in shops simply weren't done and CBS do a great job at that. So I say to people would you prefer there to be a Midnight Oil and have the compromise of yes, using CBS' facilities for getting the records in shops and for publicising the band or would you prefer the band had dissolved two and a half years ago because that's what would have happened if we'd not reached any more people?

You ask anyone in any band and the answer you get in all the time is, yes, we feel we should be reaching more people because we feel we have something to offer. Without those challenges the band disappears.

What is your relationship with CBS like?

Our relationship with CBS works very well because of the terms of our deal with them which is basically hands off the creative side of the band.

Why did Powderworks come to an end?

It came to an end because the original idea behind the label ceased to be. The parent record company [RCA] kept putting acts on the label which had nothing to do with the sort of echelon of bands which we wanted on that label. In other words we lost control of the whole theme of the label which was to provide that alternative to what they were providing.

The other criticism that I hear levelled against Midnight Oil is that being a loud and heavy guitar band your music is inherently fascist. That heavy guitar rock is inherently macho and negates serious contemplation of issues, musical or otherwise.

(laughter) No. I've never heard that comment levelled at us before, normally it's the contrary-that people see the power from the band whether it comes from the guitar or,.

I mean we have moved into other areas apart from power chording through the night and it remains powerful. For instance 'Short Memory' hasn't got power chords all through but many people come up and say that's a very powerful song. Normally people see the power of the band as reinforcing our beliefs, not negating them.

As for the macho element, I mean, once again I have to speak personally here, that's an issue I'm concerned about and if I thought that we were all macho posing and pelvic thrusting then I would've left the band years and years ago. I think the power of the band and the live energy shouldn't be confused with the cock rock echelon of English heavy metal bands.

There's a real stridency in the music...

That's because the messages we're singing have to be heard. They have to be strong cause they're important messages or we think they are.

Do you think the band is very aggressive?

I think we're very anti-aggressive. I think anyone who came to the shows at the Entertainment Centre would have seen us stopping the songs many times for fights that had broken out or disturbances even though we hate to do that sort of thing.

The whole thing is very anti-aggressive. Most of the music that we create is very powerful but if people take the trouble of making an interpretation of the lyric I think the basic message is let's survive, let's not blow ourselves up, let's not beat each other up. You've got to remember that half the stuff is very much . . . like 'Lucky Country' and 'Koala Sprint'.

They sort of point to the environment the band would like to see preserved and 'Hands Off' you know. There's a risk of sounding like a hippie but the message is anti-aggression.

Obviously you must be thinking about the U.S. at this stage?

Our attitude towards the U.S. hasn't changed since the very early days. If people there like our music and perhaps we can add a little knowledge about Australian music and Australia generally through our music because, as you've already said we do write about Australian themes and our albums are very much directed towards our experiences here, well then if there's an audience then great. That may be the icing on the cake, it's certainly something we've never pitched towards.

Autonomy has always been one of the large legends of rock 'n 'roll-you don't take shit from anyone. And a lot of people say that's necessary for good music: i.e., you can't have good rock 'n 'roll that is compromised and manufactured. Do you think that's true?

Well that would be my attitude, yes. The good music that I listen to doesn't come from bands that have trod the well worn paths.

Do you think it's necessary for a band to take an independent stance as you have?

No. When people ask me about things that we've done and I can see that they're thinking very hard about their own band or whatever, and they're thinking how they can apply that to it. I always tell them to be careful because we came up under a set of circumstances which were unique to us and that a totally different formula works for yourself, so it's very dangerous to proselytise about careers and how we went about it.

If people find that some aspects of the way we've gone about our career are challenging or useful, then that's great but as far as a model, I think that can be quite dangerous.

In order to maintain this longevity you have to have a lot of mutual respect. I guess particularly in a band that takes a high profile and a strong line.

Yes. I think you hit the nail on the head there.

When it comes to doing an album is there the same respect and unity of purpose in what the album says?

No there isn't. Because of the nature of the writing it's a very personal contribution. Because it's personal there's a good chance other members of the band won't empathise with that point of view. The band should have that latitude for personal expression, after all the band as a whole is simply the expression of people that are in it and if they can't get their point across occasionally using the band as a vehicle then the band ceases to exist.

It does seem a very united front.

Yes I know, the outside appearance would be something like a panzer tank but the actual chemistry is much more volatile than that.

How do you feel about the reputation the band has as spokesmen for the left or the young or whatever?

Well I don't think we're spokesmen for the left and I don't think we're spokesmen for the young necessarily. If people feel what we're saying in the songs and the interviews and what Peter says on stage . . . if people agree with some of those sentiments then I suppose we are spokesmen for those individuals. As far as setting ourselves up as public champions-nothing could be further from the truth.

Everybody expects something from every band and people expect statements from Midnight Oil. Do you ever discuss this or think about it? Does it bother you at all?

No. The only thing that can concern us is for us to be sincere in what we do and never take that belief in the band, by so many people it seems these days, lightly. I think that our only responsibility is to be sincere to ourselves, to be honest with people who are coming along to see the band.

They might like something that the band says and vehemently disagree with something else that we say. This happens all the time within the band itself. The band isn't one giant bulldozing unit. It's probably a lot more fragile than most people realise.

How effective do you think your songs and performances in support of the anti-nuclear cause can be?

I think it can be incredibly effective because I believe that like most issues people can become passionately involved with it. Eventually those people who have actually put their necks on the line, gone out and confronted people have got the numbers going until finally it becomes a big issue and then turn the tables on something. For example the Franklin River issue where the whole thing gathered momentum.

This issue can gather momentum and the best way to do it is to mobilise people in that way. Confront it directly, give 'em facts about it that they may not have been aware of and then say 'What side are you on?'

It's a very tricky business mixing political issues with popular music.

Yes it is tricky and normally I suggest that we wouldn't get involved in a particular issue except that we firmly believe, as a band, that this is the issue to end all issues. Therefore it's one we will support as fully as we possibly can and lend our name, however significant that may be, whenever we can to that.

How do you feel about the fate of the world?

I'm optimistic about it but only because I believe that by enough people doing what we do (agitating against militarism)-and I believe that the whole thing is heading up to be a much bigger thing than we've seen before-that it's going to be the people who say 'No we don't want this'. Otherwise I'd be very pessimistic.

From Unknown, by Toby Creswell

(Note: this article has not been approved for reproduction.)