R: Thanks for coming in. Fuzz Face? Tell us a bit about this. This is sort of out of the blue. This band appeared on my desk - Fuzz Face. I thought, "This looks pretty interesting". Whacked it in there, and then saw your name on the back. Ah, what's this, um, what's this coming from? Which part of you? Was it just getting bored off the road?
J: [laughs] Yeah, well, it could be a little bit like that. Um, no, it's not like that. We... Midnight Oil, we worked pretty hard during 93/94, touring alot. And, ah, I got to this point....We just got to the point where we just had to get off the road. And, ah, it really just wasn't, you know, I mean it's great fun. You can't kinda knock it, you know, when you're out on the road. And people kinda pay money to come and see you. I think we just felt we needed to kinda recharge the batteries a bit. Um, yeah. This was just something that, um, happened fairly spontaneously. I was, I'd gotten home and, ah, made the decision to just write alot of songs, ah, last year. And just, ah, (wanted to)? write different sorts of songs. You know. Country tunes, or like, um, you know, just whatever. You know, different kinds of things I hadn't done before. I just wanted to challenge myself, really.

R: Do something without Peter in the back of your mind, singing them?
J: Oh, well no. Yeah, there wasn't particularly any, oh not so much that.....just didn't really didn't have any outcomes in mind. Just wasn't really writing for any particular reasons. And, oh, really. You know, it came about when Nick Launay, whose, ah, this producer - the other guy in the band, or project or whatever you call it - um, was around. And he's just moved, he's an English guy, whose just moved out to Australia. He's been out here for about eighteen months. And he said, sort of, well, "What are you doing?". And I said, "Well, I'm kind of doing a few things". And he said, "Well, why don't I come over?". And I said, "Yeah. That'd be great. Come over". And, um.... So I'd already laid down a few things, and, ah......

R: This is in your home studio, is it?
J: Yeah, I've got like a little basement at home. It's like a twelve by twelve room. It's tiny. And, ah, that's where we recorded and mixed it?

R: Is that a recent addition to your home, or have you always had that?
J: Oh, there's always been a.....Yeah, it's one of those houses on a hill. You know, there's always like a hole under a house on a hill. You know, you look at the angle, drops away, and you've got, usually a room created by that. Yeah, I've just had it there for a while. And, um, really, you know, I got all this old antiquated gear in there that's pretty messed up, kind of old stuff. And, ah, yeah. He came over and I really just went down there for a few days and just started palying aroung a bit. And then he came over and I'd kinda done pretty low resolution sort of demo type recordings, and, um, which I was sort of playing alot of the instruments and he just, yeah, he just came over and just, ah, you know, insisted that there be alot of guitar on this record. You know, it had to be very guitary. So that was....

R: What was on it until that point? Wasn't there a hell of alot of guitar on it? [Jim laughs] - given that you are a guitarist.
J: Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh there was. But, um, there was ah... Oh, I can't even remember....Um, yeah, there was. It was pretty,....pretty sketchy kind of..., you know, sing through stuff, and tapping my foot. And I had a microphone on the floor on my foot, and that was the drum beat, and there was a guitar going on with another microphone. And a bit of a voice sort of scratching around in the background. So we really, um, were interested on kind of exploring. Like having some very loud guitar, with, putting it to my voice, which is a fairly, you could say, fragile beast.

R: I want to talk about your voice in just a moment, but, ah, yeah. I mean, it's that nice wall of sound guitar type approach to alot of the stuff with Fuzz Face. Did you react when you heard Nick say that? Did you say, "Yeah, I agree with you. I think it should be that way?".
J: Yeah. Yeah, well, it felt, it felt pretty good. I mean, me, I mean,I guess, um, it's one of those sorts of things where, um, it just felt right to do it at the time. And, um, I guess, you know, in terms of how modern music is going as well, you know. I dig alot of it. Alot of bands now that use alot of guitar, I mean it's a really simple thing. We, um, you know. I mean, I guess that's sort of what I'm known for as well. So I sort of thought, well yeah. Just go with it. Don't bloody fight it and try and be artsy-fartsy or clever, damn it. You know.

R: And the thing about Fuzz Face that's amazed me is that you can sing!! I thought after years and years and years of seeing Midnight Oil, that you've never had a microphone in front of you on stage, is that you had an absolutely crap voice and they wouldn't let one near you.
J: Well, you know. I guess, crap. Yeah, it's a matter of taste, but, yeah. I think, yeah, well they did, you know, and ah.....

R: But you can sing!
J: Oh yeah. I can sing alright.

R: Yeah! That's a surprise. [J: Well you got very....]
J: Yeah. I'm in a band, ah, the Oils. I mean, very strong singers. Really strong singers in the band. And, um, yeah, it's always been the case of just having a bit of time. Sung on a few of the records, just in the background. So yeah. I was sort of, yeah. It felt right to do it, and Nick....Nick ah, whose worked with the Oils before, has heard my voice and he says, "Oh look. You gotta do something with it. Gotta do something with it". So, ah, that's how it came about, really.

R: Mmm. And of course, you and Nick go way back. 10, 9, 8 was the first thing you guys worked on, wasn't it?
J: Yeah.

R: Yeah.
J: Well we're, I guess you could say we're pretty good mates from, from, from that time on.

R: I want to ask you. Whose the family dog?
J: Oh. Well. It's sort of a friend of mine. It's sort of, he who shallremain nameless. He was there when I was recording some harmonium. I was just doing this recording of me singing and playing the harmonium at the same time, and, and it's on the fourth track on the record, For Tomorrow. And, ah... The family dog was just there, and there was a microphone in his vicinity, and it was switched on and it went onto the tape. And he was tapping away with his foot and there was a tamborine going on, and he was playing a bit of acoustic guitar, and you know, I think it all sounded terrific, so we ended up leaving it in.

R: OK. Would we happen to know the family dog if you mentioned his name?
J: No, I don't think you would.

R: Somehow I don't think [J: A friend]. I don't think I'm going to get the truth out of him. But I don't know either. I'm not gonna push it. Ah....For Tomorrow. That's the track we're talking about anyway. From the Fuzz Face EP. Lets have a listen to this one right now on the Australian Music Show......

[play, "For Tomorrow"]

R: It's a nice track. A Beatles comparison OK, [Jim laughs] if I mention one?
J: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd be flattered.

R: Yeah, well, that's what sort of came to my mind when I first heard that one. I thought, bit of a somber Beatles feel to it.
J: Yeah, well, when you double track voices, I think that's what happens as well.

R: Yeah. And it's a beautiful sounding instrument - the harmonium - isn't it?
J: Yeah, they're interesting things. They're like, um. This particular one's just full of dust and, um.... It's like a foot accordian, I guess, is the best way to describe it. You, you play it with your hands, like a normal keyboard, but you got these two pedals. Like, I guess, like a sewing machine or something. Like an old sewing machine. You just pedal away.

R: But it makes a much better noise.
J: If you listen closely to the record you can hear all this kind of thumping going on in the background. Just that, yeah, they're interesting. Yeah, they're good. Yeah.

R: It's a very warm sound. As I, as I was saying to you before, Neil Young uses it alot, and that's kind of, I guess, why I love the sound of it so well [J: Mmm], but ah, yeah. It's nice stuff. And that track from the Fuzz Face EP was called For Tomorrow, and Jim Moginie from Midnight Oil - and Fuzz Face - is with me tonight on the Australian Music Show. So, is it just like a one off, just to satisfy your curiosity?
J: Yeah, really. It was. The whole thing was we kinda decided to, ah... Nick and I decided to just really make a really small record. You know, especially making it at home. You really don't have any of the normal pressures you have in, in studios. And, ah. So we really didn't even know we were making a record, um, until we finished it. And, um, you know, we were just basically having a bit of fun and just throwing ideas on the table, getting carried away with sounds and just, you know, generally having fun with it, really. And it didn't take us really long and, we um. You know, ah, had ah, all sorts of weird and wonderful ideas really, that we had never, really, been able to use in any other sort of, in the various things he's done with bands. I mean Nick's worked with...he's just doing the new silverchair record, and with Automatic and, I mean he's, you know, the Possies. He's worked with sort of so many bands.

R: He's come back to Australia after years of working away from Australia. And he did so much work with Australian bands in the early eighties. Then he went away, and now he's come back and he's doing alot of Australian bands.
J: Well, see. He married an Australian girl, you see.

R: Oh. Is that the reason?
J: That's usually what hapens.

R: Oh right.
J: And, ah [laughs], they come back here. And, ah. So yeah. He's, he's, he's been doing all that. So really it was an opportunity to just try a whole lot of stuff. And really, at the end of it, it was really, really only when we mixed it all through an old tape recorder and just edited it all together, and just, "Oh, that doesn't seem to bad when you put it all together". And we sort of went away, went away for a about a month or so (?just to live with him?). I thought, "Oh yeah. I wonder what this is gonna be like!". Listened to it fresh after about a month, and ah, I thought, "Yeah. Well, put the bloody thing out. It's only music. It's not gonna kill ya".

R: Did you have to ask permission?
J: Ah yes [chuckles]. I had to be let off the leash.

R: OK. "Can I do this?"?
J: Mr Garrett [school teacher style]. No, no. It wasn't like that. No, the band's actually been really supportive of it. You know. They say, "Oh it's great. Go off and do it and see what it's like". And in a way it's great being, you know, being the singer and, and ah, you know, the producer and the drummer and, you know, all the various things that I kinda did on it. You know, um, writing the songs and everything like that, it's a real, you really feel like being in those shoes. And I really appreciate the experience.

R: In what way? What have you learnt?
J: Well, being here talking to you. I mean, that kind of thing. You know. Having to explain it, for God's sake.

R: Did, I mean, you don't do many interviews. I mean, I think you could count on one hand the amount of interviews you've done with Midnight Oil. Did you want to do this interview?
J: Well. Oh yeah. Look, Richard Kingsmill. I love your work [laughs].

R: I meant, did the record company force you to do it, or are you just so enthusiastic about Fuzz Face that you want to go out and talk about it?
J: Yeah, I've....Yeah that's....actually the really....the way I feel about it. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just....that's great. I'm just thrilled by it all. Just chuffed, totally chuffed. It's great. And, um. So yeah. No, it's been, it's been a good experience, just from doing something different. And I mean all...I mean the thing about the Oils is that you've got, you know, very articulate people in the band. You've got, you know, Peter and Rob, who are just fantastic, you know, mouths really. And they like to talk, and that's good. They give good copy, and all that kind of stuff. So they go off and do all that, and that's wonderful. Um, but of course the other, the other three, you know, three people in the band are, kind of, you know, they've got things to say or whatever. You know. But we just never get the chance. Now's my chance.

R: I think with Midnight Oil, though, it's always been perceived that there's always been the depth right throughout the band. I don't think it's ever been seen as it's either Peter's or Rob's band, or either of those two. It's always been seen, and that must give you satisfaction.
J: Yeah.

R: Yeah. "Go off, do the interviews. We're happy in the knowledge that people know".
J: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Well, that's nice of you to say that. I mean, I think we, um. We really, um. Yeah. We're seen as pretty protective of our kind of, I guess our, of that, you know, trying to keep the music-kinda-side pretty, you know, bullet proof. And so we....Yeah, it's pretty kind of....I guess it's fairly rarified, and kind of cloistered. Really the way we kind of usually go about making our music. You know we, without any kind of influence from anybody really - record companies - we just do it on our own body clocks. That's the way we kind of do it. And ah, with ah, you know, with doing interviews or whatever....Yeah, I mean, it's not...it's not a thing we've really, you know. I relished, you know, not having to have done them. You know, I mean, 'cause Pete and Rob have been doing them for such a long time. Really, you get a great anonimity about it, where you know you can just walk around,and if your writing songs and you just observe things, like Joe Average or, you know, whatever. Anybody else. You just, it's gonna be better than you kind of, you know, you're sitting in some kind of, you know, well, ivory tower. You know. It's just, I think the rest of us, you know, we lead really, relatively normal lives I reckon. You know. Apart from when we're kind of playing kind of really loud music and kinda goin' off.

R: Do people recognise you in the street?
J: Well, the people that tend to recognise me in the street are kind of the more assassin type characters - the really intense ones.

R: The ones who have every Midnight Oil record.
J: "Oh Jim. Now, I really want to talk to you, but I need, I can't talk to you now. I need about three hours with you". And I go, "Yeah, OK. Well whenever. You know, just give us a call". No!! "But I need it now". I say, "Look, I gotta go. you know, I've something happening. You know, I've gotta go to the dentist or something". And they sort of say, "Well, you know. Well. But I want to talk to you NOW!". You know. So it's not...It gets...

R: Do you freak out?
J: Otherwise people will ....Do I freak out? Um. Oh yeah. A bit. Yeah, sometimes. Yeah, but freaking out. What do you mean? Kind of.....

R: Run a million miles an hour.
J: Pulling your hair out?

R: Yeah. Or does it make you paranoid?
J: No. I kind of try and, yeah, I haven't got that thing of blocking out my peripheral vision that some people have. You know, when they're walking around. I mean I'm, yeah. I think, um, it's a thing where you're kind of not, not ah, not being too....You know, I'm never kind of looking for it. I'm never looking for people who are kind of looking for me. You know. So it's....'cause, and I, it's funny, like people say, "Hey, I saw you down at such and such the other day, you know. I saw you at this gig or whatever" and "Why didn't you just come over and say hello, or something?". And they say, "Oh, I was too scared" [laughs].

R: Yeah. It must be, yeah. It must be very funny. Well, it's kind of interesting that you're experiencing it now. I mean, what is it? Twenty years in your music career?
J: Yeah, well it's...yeah, yeah. I guess that's right. Yeah, it's um....yeah, I mean, its good. It's a good thing. I think it's a plus.

R: I want to talk to you a bit more about Midnight Oil. Because, ah, the new records going to be coming out in the next couple of months, and we should just talk about what people can expect. Let's whack in the new single from Midnight Oil, right at this point though. Jim Moginie - guitarist with the Oils - is with me tonight. And this track is the single from the album. The first taste of it. It's called Underwater.

[play "Underwater"]

R: Did you hear that story of what the reaction was when we played that at our weekly music meeting? I wasn't there, but I've been told what happened. What we do each week is we play stuff, and no-one knows what it is - except for one person who puts it on - and there's a room full of people listening to it. And no-one in the room picked it was Midnight Oil.
J: [laughs] Yeah, well, we aim to surprise [laughs again].

R: So that satisfies.....
J: I guess we always have tried to do that, when we make records.

R: To my ears. I picked it immediately - when I first heard it - just because, you know, Pete's voice is so distinctive. Although, he does sing it a little differently to stuff he sang in the past. There is a different element to his voice there, but I still picked it as him. But yeah. Apparently the whole roomfull just..."What? That's Midnight Oil? Their new single? Wow! That's different!".
J: [laughs] Yeah. I thought they could have told it from a snare drum, but hey, you know, what do I know?

R: You're too close to it, though. Jim Moginie is with me tonight on JJJ. That's the new Oils' single, Underwater. So what sort of indication is that of the forthcoming album?
J: Oh gee. I don't know whether I'm allowed to talk about this. Oh OK. Um, well I s'pose.......

R: Well it is recorded, isn't it?
J: It's out, yeah. Basically it's recorded. I think, ah. You know, I really don't know. It's just, to me, it's just another Oils' record. But um. You know, I guess it's a slightly funkier Midnight Oil you're gonna hear. Slightly [emph.], if that's the right word.

R: That's got different elements to it. I mean, there is kind of like a, you know, bit more distortion happening there. Did you experiment much more with the songs this time 'round?
J: Well, yeah. We just recorded in a rehersal room. We just, I mean, it's this thing like with the Fuzz Face thing - just recording at home. I mean, you can do it. You don't have to go into these sort of, you know, marble kind of palaces and make records. You know. So, yeah. We just did it in a rehersal room. And, ah. We were just jamming away and the desk and recording equipment was all in the same room when we were playing. And, um. You know, the music felt good there, and, ah. You know. We're sacrificing sound quality for feel, basically. It's that kind of record, really.

R: Did you spend long making it?
J: Nuh. No we....It was a pretty quick record actually. Pretty quick record for us. You know. It was about five - five, six - weeks. And ah, yeah. It was good fun to do it. And ah, we went in with ah, this producer called Malcom Burn, whose just done the new Patti Smith record. In fact, the one you're playing alot at the moment. [R: Yeah. It's a great record]. And he's worked with, ah. Oh crikey......

R: Daniel Lanois. He's close to him, isn't he?
J: Yeah. And ah, also. You know. What's-his-name. You know. John Cougar-Mellen.... [R: Mellencamp].... Mellencollie. What ever. And ah. you know. He's....yeah. I've always really liked his work. He did a record - a Dylan record in about 1989 called Oh Mercy (?) - that he worked on, that I just adore. And ah, he worked on that, so that was, you know, was great. And he came out here and um. We just had a great time. It was really good. So yeah. I'm looking forward to when the record comes out. You know. 'Cause it's a fairly....it's a mixed grill.

R: A mixed grill?!
J: I don't really know. Yeah, so you know when you asked me what it's like? I can't really say because it sort of...it's all very diverse. You know. Hopefully.

R: OK. And it's called Breathe, I believe. Is that right?
J: Yeah.

R: Breathe. And when is it coming out?
J: I....Richard, I think it's in.......

R: September?
J: October.

R: You're going out on the road September/October, aren't you?
J: Yeah.

R: Yeah. Looking forward to that?
J: Yeah. Absolutely.

R: 'Cause when was the last time the Oils played live in Australia?
J: Oh gee. Here. Well we did, ah, we did a tour in early '95. We played with, um, Crowded House and Hunters and Collectors. And we did like a big tour around the place. And, ah. Oh, it wasn't a very long tour, but we...Yeah. We'd, um, it's quite a while since we played here.

R: About a year and a half.
J: Yeah. We're just going back to the clubs and pubs, and, so we just have some fun.

R: One thing I wanted to ask you, and I mentioned this, actually, last week on the program, and I thought I might just throw it at you know, seeing that you're in front of me. I said - and I don't want you to respond to this, and I don't want you to get a huge head about it - I can't think of an Australian band whose had a better guitar combination in the band than you and Martin. You and Martin Rotsey. Ah, when Midnight Oil first got together, was that something that just fell into place really quickly, that chemistry between you?
J: Well, Oh gee. Um. It's a pretty hard thing for me to talk about. But I mean, that's the sort of thing that, um. That's a chemistry thing, you know. That's a, that's a kind of a fairly special thing, I think. That, um, that's the sort of thing you talk about and it sort of disappears, you know, when you talk about things like that. You know, I think it's, we, we do fall into that, you know. It's more or less been that way from the start. We play completely differently from each other, and um, it sort, one of those sort of things where, um, we, we just have the sound, you know, when we just, when we play together. Its...It's......We don't try to analyse it, or figure out "if you do this, I'll do that", or "I'll play this note or you play that note". It's very un-muso-like. You know. The way we play. It's fairly ad hoc really. It just comes out. Yeah, yeah. It's one of those things, you know, when we get in a room and play as a band, Midnight Oil, it's a really special thing. I mean, it's something that we're really respectful of.

R: Conscious of?
J: Even if we go off and do little records or whatever, and stuff, you know, it's something that we just, um, we hold very, very, dear.

R: Yeah, just...Because, as a listener hearing it, you look at it and some of it, especially listening to the records, there's just so much happening with the guitars, and you're kind off going, "How long did they spend figuring that out?". Just one of those "two things come together and they make something that's kind of perfect in the end".
J: Well. We, yeah. We just started....I mean, we started playing in pubs and stuff, it just sort of, it's just one of these things that, ah, kind of developed through the whole, that whole, pub thing. Kind of (coming?) up, just to make it kind of interesting and kind of dramatic, you know? I mean, a lot of people say when we play, this, this sort of sturm und drang thing - whatever that, you know - is quite a dramatic thing. And we....We don't, um, you know...It just happens, you know? And we....We'll plug in and it just goes and we're off. You know? It's one of those sorts of, you know, things. What was the question again?

R: [laughs] You don't analyse it!
J: You got me kind of vaguing out.

R: No. You made me start quivering in my shoes when you said, "Oh god, I've never really analysed it". Maybe it's one of those things, if you start talking about it, it'll go away.
J: Well, actually. When you....It's funny, you know, when you (something?) like that, I think. Um, a little bit like, maybe this record we've just done. An Oils record where we didn't.....We usually get into quite a lot of analysis of about record making. And in a way, this one, we thought, bugger it, you know. We'll just play music, you know. And ah, that's, you know, I think it kinda benefits from that, you know. That's why you can make it quickly, and you can. All of those sort of things.

R: Yeah. It must make the arguments and the headaches just fly right out the back of the....door.
J: Yeah, well. We, yeah. It's good though, 'cause we all agree about the important things, you know, with the band, really. When it comes down to making music. So these sorts of arguments don't really happen.

R: OK. Well, we look forward to hearing more of it, and we'll play more of it to our music meeting and see whether maybe they'll pick up on the new sound of Midnight Oil.
J: Well, yeah. Yeah.

R: Keep on stumping them.
J: It's, yeah. Go right ahead.

R: Jim Moginie from Midnight Oil - and also from Fuzz Face - thanks for coming in. Nice to meet you.
J: It's a pleasure.

From JJJ, by Richard Kingsmill

(Note: this article has not been approved for reproduction.)